'Truth isn't truth': Trump lawyer Rudy Giuliani worries Mueller interview could lead to perjury charge
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Rudy Giuliani explains why he doesn’t want President Trump to testify in the Mueller Russia Probe saying “truth isn’t truth.”
Buzz60
WASHINGTON – Donald Trump’s lawyer Rudy Giuliani on Sunday said he won’t let special counsel Robert Mueller rush him into an interview with the president, arguing investigators could trap Trump into lying based on their interpretation of the facts.
“I’m not going to be rushed into having him testify so that he gets trapped into perjury,” Giuliani said during an appearance on NBC’s “Meet the Press.”Â
“When you tell me, you know, that he should testify because he’s going to tell the truth, and he shouldn’t worry, well that’s so silly because it’s somebody’s version of the truth, not the truth,” Giuliani said.Â
Giuliani, a former New York City mayor who has become the leading voice on Trump’s defense team, then entered into an unusual back-and-forth with “Meet the Press” host Chuck Todd about the definition of truth.
“Truth is truth,” Todd replied.
“No, it isn’t truth,” Giuliani said. “Truth isn’t truth.”
“Truth isn’t truth?” Todd said at one point in the exchange. “Mr. Mayor, do you realize … this is going to become a bad meme.”
As an example, Giuliani said the president and former FBI director James Comey have sharply conflicting accounts about fired White House National Security Adviser Mike Flynn.
Giuliani has said the president never had a conversation with Comey about ending the FBI’s investigation into Flynn. That contradicts a memo Comey wrote at the time, in which he said Trump asked him to let go of the Flynn matter.
“Donald Trump says, ‘I didn’t talk about Flynn with Comey,'” Giuliani said Sunday. “Comey says, ‘You did talk about it,’ so tell me what the truth is.”
Comey took to Twitter a few hours later with his response. “Truth exists and truth matters,” he tweeted. “Truth has always been the touchstone of our country’s justice system and political life. People who lie are held accountable.”Â
Truth exists and truth matters. Truth has always been the touchstone of our country’s justice system and political life. People who lie are held accountable. If we are untethered to truth, our justice system cannot function and a society based on the rule of law dissolves.
— James Comey (@Comey) August 19, 2018
Sunday’s exchange with Todd was not the first memorable soundbite about honesty to come from Giuliani in recent days. Last week, he told CNN’s Chris Cuomo that “nowadays” facts “are in the eye of the beholder.”
Mueller is investigating Russian interference in the 2016 presidential election and whether the Trump campaign colluded with the Russians – a charge Trump has vehemently denied. Comey’s claims about the Flynn conversation and Trump’s later firing of Comey likely are a key issue in any potential obstruction of justice charges.
More: White House lawyer Don McGahn: 5 things to know about his cooperation with Russia probe
More: Rudy Giuliani now says President Trump did not talk about Michael Flynn with FBI’s James Comey
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In this Wednesday, Sept. 12, 2001 file photo, New York City Mayor Rudolph Giuliani, center, leads New York Gov. George Pataki, left, and Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-N.Y., on a tour of the site of the World Trade Center disaster. While stumping for Donald Trump in Ocala, Fla., on Oct. 12, 2016, former New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani accused Hillary Clinton of falsely claiming to have been in New York on Sept. 11, 2001. It isn’t clear what Giuliani was talking about. On many occasions, Clinton has described being in Washington, where Congress was in session, on Sept. 11 when hijacked jets began striking the World Trade Center and the Pentagon. Flights were still grounded on Sept. 12, 2001, but Clinton traveled to New York City the next day aboard a federal plane. There, she circled the smoldering World Trade Center in a helicopter, then toured ground zero with Giuliani and Pataki.
President Bush greets New York City Mayor Rudolph Giuliani, left, and Governor of New York George Pataki, right, at McGuire Air Force Base, N.J.,, Sept. 14, 2001. On Sept. 11, when asked to predict the death toll, Giuliani answered with his heart rather than his head: “The number of casualties will be more than any of us can bear ultimately.” Giuliani went to scores of funerals in the awful days that followed.
President Bush, center, New York City Mayor Rudolph Giuliani, left, and New York Governor George Pataki, second from left, Sen. Charles Schumer, D-N.Y., second from right, and New York City Fire Commissioner Thomas Van Essen, right, look toward the fallen buildings during a tour of the World Trade Center, Sept. 14, 2001 in New York.
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